Video Vantage: Episode 5 – A Look Behind the Camera

Video Vantage: Episode 5 – Transcript

Intro

Mark

Hello and welcome to the final episode of Video Vintage, your insider guide to video marketing. I’m your host, Mark O’Connor, and in this episode, we’re going to be talking about the video production process itself. Over the course of Video Vintage, we’ve covered all of the elements that inform the video production process, the business justification, the beginning of a video project, and the preparation that goes into appearing on camera.

But a lot of people aren’t actually aware of what actually goes on behind the scenes once a video project has been given the go ahead. What does a video project actually look like from a video producers point of view, and what factors can influence the cost of a video project? To help explain this and more, I’m joined by fellow video producer Paul McDermott, with whom I’ve had the pleasure of working with on a number of occasions.

Paul is an award winning documentary filmmaker and video producer, and he heads up Social Video HQ, a company he founded in 2019, having previously run a wedding film business since 2010. Over the years, Paul has worked with a wide range of organisations such as the IFA, the HSE, the ESRI, as well as multinationals like Digital Realty. With these clients, he has produced everything from promo videos to animated video explainers.

Interview

Mark

Paul, you’re very welcome to Video Vintage. Thanks for joining us. Can we kick things off by asking you what got you into video production to start with?

Paul

Mark, thanks for inviting me here. You know, we’ve collaborated a good bit in the last year or two, and, it’s great to be sitting here chatting to you about all things video!

Mark

It’s our favourite subject!

Paul

We live and breathe it! So, this is my origin story, right?

Mark

In the MCU!

Paul

How I got here? So I was a TEFL teacher in Dublin, and there was a place in the centre of Dublin called Film Base where you can learn filmmaking. And I said to my then girlfriend, now wife, that ‘I’m really interested, I might just give this a go’. And she was like, ‘just go and do it.’ So I did it. It was an intensive course – How to Make A Short Film. And I directed one of the shorts.

Mark

Ah right, okay. Very good. I’d say that was a good learning curve.

Paul

Such a learning curve. Like it was intensive weekends, but we also worked outside of that. And, I truly got the bug from there. So, made a few more shorts, then realised I knew nothing about cameras and audio and all of that stuff.

Mark

The technical side of things. So the artistic creative side was always there, but then trying to match it up to the technical.

Paul

Yeah. So, just got a tape camera then. So it was a HDV camera at the time, before SD cards, and then just started doing small jobs – that became a wedding business.

Mark

Right.

Paul

You know, and I did that for two years.

Mark

Tough industry.

Paul

A lot of hours on the go. But you really learn. You learn your craft.

Mark

You learn on your feet, yeah.

Paul

And, you know yourself Mark, you’re dealing with people as well. You learn how to interact with people, how to get the best from them as well.

Mark

That’s the thing a lot of people don’t realise. Like yeah, there is the creative and technical aspect, but it is a people business at the end of the day. And trying to manage everyone and, you know, ‘things are on fire in the background – don’t look there! Everything’s fine!’ Yeah. You’re trying to keep everyone calm. Collected.

Paul

And happy!

Mark

And happy, yeah. And it shows up in the end result of whatever project you’re working on. If people are happy, you know, that comes across on camera as well. I suppose we’ll discuss that later on as well. But it just, it helps bring the whole thing together.

Paul

Yeah, yeah. Because it shouldn’t… Being in a video, or working around video, it should be an enjoyable process.

Mark

Yeah. Like it can be stressful. Definitely it can be intimidating initially. But, you know, it depends who’s behind the camera. You can help put people at ease. Let us be stressed. Not our clients.

Mark

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, I’m stressed today being on camera! So now I know what it’s like!

Paul

We’ve allowed ourselves to be on the other side!

Mark

Yeah exactly!

Paul

Mark, how did you get into it?

Mark

Yeah. I’ve always been passionate about video production. I guess as a kid what got me ‘the bug’ as you described, was Star Wars. The Phantom Menace came out when I was a kid, and I know that film gets a lot of slack. I loved it! I went to see it six times when it came out, so God help my Mam and Dad! They had to put up with Jar Jar Binks for six times in a row! But from there, I just was always interested in like, ‘wow, how did they do that?’ You can imagine like, you know, a little six year old seeing lasers and all the rest, like, you know? But, yeah, that’s what got me interested.

I was always interested in the technical side of things. In school I did Technology and Physics and all that as well. So that kind of engineering-ish…

Paul

In that area.

Mark

It was always there. But yeah, always interested in photography, cinematography and that type of stuff as well. I remember always borrowing my Mam’s camera phone – remember the flip phones? Trying out different bits and pieces, making short films at home as a kid.

And then as I got older, I said, this is something I want to pursue professionally. And I wasn’t sure what form that would be, but I knew it was something I wanted to do. So, yeah, I did a Creative Digital Media marketing degree in ITT, or Technology University Dublin as it’s called now? So that’s a four year bachelor’s course. And that was great. Up until then, I never touched Photoshop or anything like that. So it was always just, you know, doing stuff my way. But then I learnt the professional way of doing these things and exposure to all forms of photography, video, audio production as well. And you could really go into the niche to see what you want to do.

Paul

It gives you time.

Mark

Exactly. Yeah. So yeah kind of what you described of learning on your feet as you go. You get exposed to everything. You might have a great idea – do I have the skill to pull it off? And then you research that side and it gets, you know, you’re working with other like minded people. People have their own favourite things.

One guy might be more interested in audio, more interested in the video side of things. Those two guys have to work together in order to make the final result.

Paul

Absolutely. And you learn by being with people who are more expert than you in a certain area.

Mark

Exactly. Yeah.

Paul

Just working with them, you learn.

Mark

It’s always learning. Every project’s different. Even if, you know, the same application, same tools, every project’s different. Each thing has its own challenges. So that’s why it’s always good to keep you on your feet as well. You can’t take anything for granted. But yeah, following on from that then, I went and I worked in the marketing sector for a good few years.

And then during the pandemic, I was laid off but because I was with the company for so long, I got a decent redundancy package, and I said, ‘right, it’s now or never. Let’s do this.’ So I invested in some new equipment, and that’s how Media Mill came to be. And through Media Mill, I met the likes of yourself and Dave, our camera crew as well. So yeah, it’s just been great to, you know, working as collaborators in different projects.

Paul

Yeah. And, I think that’s, a key thing, you know, maybe before a lot of people in the industry wanted to silo what they were doing. But actually, you grow and work on bigger projects by working with others.

Mark

You work together. Exactly. I suppose that brings us on to our next point then – working together, teamwork is an important part of the job. What do you think is the most important part of the job overall? So from a client perspective, what do they not realise in terms of behind the scenes work?

Paul

Yeah. So I think we discussed this before… So you have two types of clients, right? So you have clients that have got work done before. So they to have some idea.

Mark

They’re used to the process to a certain extent.

Paul

Absolutely. Yeah. To a certain extent, yeah. Depending on who they worked with. And then then you have total newbies who have no clue. So, so really you have to bring them along in the process.

Mark

Kinda have to hold their hand to a certain extent.

Paul

Explain to them all the different facets. But I think, the most common question is ‘how much is this going to cost?’ And the most common answer is ‘how long is a piece of string?’

Mark

Yeah. What seems like a small project – behind the scenes actually could be quite a big project. The example I always like to give is your two minute promo video – that might take ten times more work than a one hour conference of a guy speaking on a podium – just because of the different moving parts in it.

Paul

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So for anybody looking at this and just thinking ‘how much?’ You have to think about how many hours are involved, and that’s not just on the day.

Mark

It’s not what you see on set – it’s before and after.

Paul

It’s all the pre-planning that’s involved. And then all of the editing and graphics work at the end. And how many people are there during the day and how many people are working on it in the background afterwards? So if you just think of that, it’ll give you a good idea of how much a project is going to cost.

Mark

I suppose the best way to explain it for people who aren’t aware, video production is actually three parts of production: Pre-Production, Production itself and Post-Production. So Pre-Production is all the planning, scripting, the brainstorming phase, the research, it might be securing venues, all types of the logistical side of things. Production, then, is what you see on the day with lights, camera, action, all that type of stuff. And then Post-Production is the editing process. Bringing it all together like one big jigsaw puzzle.

Paul

Absolutely. And bringing in the different facets as well, you know, because, you might be getting some graphics or animation work done. You might start getting some voiceover work done as well. So then it’s yeah, you’re bringing it all to your timeline, creating drafts, getting sign offs.

Mark

And working with maybe a Marketing Department as well, you know, making sure everything is on brand. The guidelines and all that.

Paul

We work with marketers.

Mark

We are marketers. I guess we’re like a subdivision of it. Yeah, yeah.

Paul

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Mark

Where does a project come together? What’s the most important part? What makes or breaks a video project?

Paul

Yeah. So, you mentioned three different parts, right? So Pre-Production, Production and Post-Production or editing. Right. And most people think it’s the lights and cameras and the editing, but actually, Pre-Production is as important, okay. And I suppose we could just go through it in a bit of detail just to let people know, because it’s… I suppose it’s the part that people know the least about, you know.

Mark

And it’s where the most hold-ups can be.

Paul

Absolutely. And a good Pre-Production means a great shoot and means a great, finished product. So, with Pre-Production, the first thing is the Discovery Call, and this is where the likes of myself and yourself – we become experts on whatever subject we’re going to be working on.

Mark

Yeah. Ideas will be thrown at you, and you have to distil it into, ‘okay, how will we approach this?’

Paul

Yeah, we go and do our research as well, you know? So we’re in the background finding out about this company, this area, what they want, and then we have the discovery call where we talk to their marketing people, where we talk to the business owners. We listen for phrases that will work, and we start to formulate ideas, right? And we’re bouncing these ideas off them as well. So, this is where we give our expertise and our knowledge.

Mark

And then that later informs… you might have a Brief at that point, but that will inform a more detailed brief thereafter. And from my perspective, that’s the most important part. It helps you get a sense of what is the client looking for? What’s your expectations? Where do I fit into that?

Paul

Yeah. So you brought up the brief, right. So we should have put that first, right! And I’ve talked on a few podcasts about this as well. Right. So how important is a detailed brief? Because we get a request for quotes all the time.

Mark

And it could be as simple as ‘I need a video’ – okay? What does that mean?

Paul

Yeah. Let’s talk! But the more detailed the brief, just from a customer’s point of view right, the more detailed the brief you have – and if you send that out for quote, then you can start to compare the quotes, the replies that you get. So we want to know, exactly what’s in your mind. Examples, maybe online.

Mark

Exactly. Reference material really, really helps. It really gives you a sense of the pace, the style, the overall flow of what they have in mind and how does it fit into what the objective is.

Paul

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, so then we can start to equate what level of production you’re looking for, you know?

Mark

Yeah.

Paul

So detailed brief so, if nobody takes anything else from our conversation today as people looking for video production companies, the more detailed you can be, the better the quotes you receive back.

Mark

The better the quotes, the more detailed the quotes will be, and overall, the better the end result – you’re going to get what you’re looking for. I think the worst type of brief you can get is ‘I need a video. Don’t care what it looks like.’ And no matter what you do then afterwards, ‘that’s not what I’m looking for. That’s not what I’m looking for.’

Paul

Yeah, yeah. So like, it’s like searching in haystack for an answer.

Mark

Yeah. A needle in a haystack. Exactly. Yeah.

Paul

And I suppose then, and it’s something that you talked about as well, is location scouts.

Mark

Yes. Location scouts are very important. There’s all sorts of different variables. Like I was saying earlier, each shoot is different. So a lot of stuff I would do will be on location – a lot of conferences, that type of stuff. And always I’m looking out for – what are the practicalities of setting up there? Is enough space for the equipment? Is there any noise interference, for example, air conditioning fans?

We had a fan going here earlier just to keep the heat in the room, but obviously we switch it off for this recording session now, so it is getting a little bit cooler, but that’s okay! Is there space for any equipment, noise interference, other bits and bobs as well. If it’s like for example, a conference, an event, is that room available before for setup? Because setup might take an hour, it might take two hours, might take three hours depending on what it is. Can we get access to that space?

Paul

And also, you know, because we’re looking to show the business in its best aspect, right. So we want, if we’re doing an interview, our vox pops, we want to put the client with a nice background. If there is conference noise in the background… And, is there building work going on nearby?

Mark

Well that’s it. Yeah, that’s a classic case of if there’s roadworks and there’s a jackhammer going on outside. They’re the things we need to look into. Yeah.

Paul

It’s audio visual at the end of the day.

Mark

Yeah, exactly. You need to ring ahead. And that’s the thing. Audio is half of video. And if it doesn’t sound good, no one’s going to watch it. You can get away to a certain extent with visuals that maybe aren’t 100%. As long as the information is audible. But yeah, it’s part of the package. If you can’t see it or listen to it, what’s the point?

Paul

Yeah. So it might be a small extra cost to do it. But overall, for having a great shoot, to have that location scout done. That’s fantastic.

Mark

Yeah. You’re troubleshooting before you get there basically. Solving all the problems, potential problems before you get there and it just makes the overall shoot much more seamless. You know exactly what you’re doing. Like you said, you might be going to site a week in advance to get a feel for the space, so you know exactly where you’re going to set up. Or depending on the situation, you might be able to do that virtually as well on your client calls. You know, get the webcamera…

Paul

360 cameras and stuff like that.

Mark

You’re also looking for power sockets to power all the equipment, all that type of stuff as well, and then just making sure the camera angles, the lines, the fields of view all line up as well.

Paul

And then Pre-Production is just the boring stuff. Creating shortlists and schedules.

Mark

Ticking them off as you go along.

Paul

Absolutely. Because you do forget, because you’re moving and you’re moving equipment and dealing with a lot of different people on the day. So, yeah, you need to be ticking off the shots as you get them. And you also need to allocate the correct amount of time, which comes with the experience, to know, like, okay, this interview part will take two hours, you know?

Mark

Of which, 40 minutes might be the actual interview itself because it’s, it’s set up and then break down afterwards.

Paul

Absolutely. So like, you know, and I think we’ll probably come to this because it’s so important, like to set up for an interview – you’re looking at at least an hour you know – minimum. You know and it depends like this, this setup here, this is probably more than an hour.

Mark

Yeah. This was about two hours between getting here, getting all the gear in from the cars and setting up and then yeah it’s, you know, troubleshooting as well. Yeah.

Paul

And I suppose one other thing is if you are getting a business owner who’s speaking on camera for the first time, sometimes they need a bit of training, you know, and that can be done in person or online running through scripts.

Mark

Exactly ahead of time, getting them used to the questions they’re going to be asked and how they’re going to answer them. And you know, the example I always like to use – include the question in the answer because it helps in the edit after the fact. So if I asked you what your favourite colour was, say it was blue? If you just said ‘blue’ okay, when it comes to editing, there’s nothing for me to work with there. But, ‘my favourite colour is blue’, then it makes sense within the context of the video.

Paul

Yeah, because you know, we talked about the scripting process. But I’ve often had clients who, we had the script prepared, and then we hop on our call to run through the script, and then they realise in the call, ‘oh, actually, I don’t know that script.’ And that’s great because they’re not realising that on the shoot.

Mark

Because it will throw you.

Paul

Yeah. So they have time to go off and actually get it into their head. Yeah. We are scriptwriters now.

Mark

Pretty much!

Paul

Yeah by taking on this job that’s what we become. So it’s not related to cameras, but it’s related to what’s said on camera. So with experience, we know our hooks. We know what the client’s trying to get across. We know how to condense and simplify it, you know?

Mark

Keep it simple. Keep it smart.

Paul

So we download all that information from the discovery and we produce draft scripts and we I pass them back and forth. So that’s a really, really important phase in the Pre-Production.

Mark

And get it done well ahead of time because then the client has time to familiarise themselves with the script in this way.

Paul

Yeah, yeah. And I suppose as well just, just to say, then we have our shot lists, our schedules, our scripts, so we know who has to be there on the day. Everybody knows what they’re doing on the day.

Mark

Yeah, the last thing you want is people waiting around. So yeah, because the longer you’re waiting, the less enthusiasm there is and more delays there are then as well. So it’s keeping the cogs turning all the time. It’s very important. It’s very important for keeping production day in process basically. Making sure you get everything on time. Time is money, as they say.

Paul

Burning money! In filmmaking, that’s what they say. Once you’re in Production, you’re burning.

Mark

You’re burning money. Yeah. Well, speaking of Production, then. When it comes to Production day itself, what’s the best way to prep a client for it?

Paul

I think your Pre-Production should have thought that out. So they should have schedules and shot lists. They should have their scripts. Everybody that’s there should know what they’re doing. And be happy with that as well. And that’s where your planning comes in. And so you’re going around and often we’re carrying around sheets of paper just ticking off things and making sure that we’re getting everything. And also just being that that centre of calm. And exuding calmness for our clients. So that: Number One, they’re calm. Number Two, they’re kind of happy and having fun because it’s something different.

Mark

It is. It’s a break from the norm.

Paul

Yeah, it’s a break from the norm. And, I always… I think I learned this from being a wedding videographer – you know, I’m coming into houses in the morning and sometimes the mood might be off and just coming in and being that centre of lightness, you know, and I think we have to be like that on shoots as well. You know, we’ve got to exude that. And that comes with time and experience.

Mark

And another important part of Pre-Production that ties into Production is that it informs the necessary crew and equipment that’s needed in order to pull off the shoot successfully. And that’s another factor that clients would have to consider in terms of the cost as well, because you have extra manpower on set, extra gear, maybe gear is being rented, all that type of stuff.

Travel expenses – if you’re doing a promo video for a company, and you need to go to five different locations to show off, whatever, the warehouse or equipment they have as part of the promo video.

Paul

It’s time.

Mark

It’s time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that might be a case of getting an extra crew member to go to two different locations at the same time to capture more content. All that type of stuff as well. So that’s just other things to consider as well.

Paul

Yeah. Like so we collaborate regularly. And you know, so for a videographer to be on site and doing interviews, for example, they’re looking after cameras, they’re looking after audio and they’re trying to direct the person in front of camera. So that’s a lot of hats to wear.

Mark

It is. Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s a lot of pressure. Yeah.

Paul

Yeah. So we work together as a duo often. Right. And that splits it so that we really can make sure that we are getting results.

Mark

We’re both doing our best jobs.

Paul

Absolutely. And then there is little or no chance of us missing something. You know, and that’s important. So sometimes having that extra person on set really helps.

Mark

Yeah. And with all that experience then of working on set and in all sorts of locations, I suppose you’ve learnt a lot of tips and tricks over the years then as well, what’s your favourite one? I remember we were on a shoot recently and we had a person giving an interview and their hair was a bit fuzzy. You had a great solution!

Paul

Yeah. So I learned this. So this is how we learn, right? So I have a friend and she’s an experienced DOP. She’s just done her first feature. And we’ve worked together for years on different projects. Yarrow is her name. And we were on a shoot, and we were in the middle of a field shooting for the IFA. And there was this lady speaking to camera, and the hair was flying all over the place. She took out the baby wipes and just dampens down the hair. And seemingly in Ireland, because in Ireland we have this very humid environment for women, I don’t know much about that! But the hair flies away, so baby wipes – just rub down, just dampens down the hair.

Mark

And that made a big difference on the day. A cheap solution, but an effective one!

Paul

Absolutely works. How about yourself?

Mark

Oh yeah. One classic tip then is just having a lint roller on set for… especially when you’re under lights, you can really show different fibres, dog hairs and all that type of stuff as well. So always have a lint roller on set. So lint rollers and baby wipes!

Paul

Yeah. And so we are shooting today on fixed chairs.

Mark

Yes. So no swivel chairs.

Paul

And so, so you learn at the beginning if you put the subject on a swivel chair, they might just start moving around.

Mark

Especially if they’re nervous. And then you end up with a squeaky chair then as well.

Paul

And squeaky chairs don’t work for audio as well. And we always do, and people don’t realise because they never see it, is when a person is speaking and looking into camera, we mark where they are, so that we can always have them in the same spot.

Mark

We can replicate the shot.

Paul

Exactly.

Mark

Paul, so that’s obviously a lot of information to take on board and it’s a great way of summarising the whole process from start to finish, from Pre-Production, Production and Post-Production. I guess in summary, when it comes to clients scoping work, I hope we’ve informed them of that and that it’s helped give an idea of what can inform the costing as well.

Because it’s a lot of prep work. You might have a lot of people on set on the day, and then the editing process itself, depending on the scope of the work, could take a long amount of time. Again, like I’m saying, depending on the scope of the work. That would have been covered as well in contracts at the start, and an idea of what the overall turnaround time would be and the revision process.

Paul

And contracts are great, right? You know, I always try and get clients to sign a contract because it’s like an FAQ of what we expect and what they should expect.

Mark

And everyone’s literally on the same page.

Paul

Literally on the same page!

Mark

That’s the most important part. Well Paul, thanks very much for coming on today. It was great to have you. And I hope that’s helped inform everyone on the wonders of video production.

Paul

Listen it was great being here!

Outro

Mark

So there you have it. Over the course of Video Vantage we’ve discussed everything you need to know when considering investing in video production for your business. We’ve had insightful conversations about marketing strategy, funding, branding and social media, the world of algorithms and SEO, confidence on camera, and behind the scenes of video production itself. I hope you found this helpful.

If you have any questions about the topics raised in today’s episode, please don’t hesitate to get in touch via the Media Mill website at mediamill.ie

Finally, I’d just like to say thanks to everyone who was involved in helping me put this project together. It’s very much appreciated. So for one last time, I’ve been your host, Mark O’Connor, and thanks for joining me on Video Vantage.